Ep 83 with Dr. Krystal Redman

Ailey Jolie: 00:06

Welcome to In This Body, a podcast where we dive deep into the pulp power of embodiment. I'm your host, Ailey Shalee, a psychotherapist deeply passionate about living life free from wisdom within your very own body. The podcast In This Body is a love letter to embodiment, a podcast dedicated to asking important questions like: how does connecting to your body change your life? How does connecting to your body enhance your capacity to love more deeply and live more authentically? And how can collective embodiment alter the course of our world? Join me for consciously carrying a conversation with leading experts. Each episode is intended to support you in reconnecting to your very own body. This podcast will be available for free wherever you get your podcast, making it easy for you to stay connected to In This Body, the podcast with me, Ailey Jolie. Welcome to How to Be in This Body with Me, Ailey Jolie. Today I'm sitting down with Dr. Crystal Redman, a public health doctor, reproductive justice leader, and the executive director of Spark Reproductive Justice Now in Atlanta, Georgia. Crystal holds a doctorate in public health and has spent nearly 20 years moving between direct care, state government, and grassroots movement work. They led maternal and child health initiatives for the entire state of Georgia, served as executive director of breast cancer action, teach at Emory, and founded the SEGH Institute, a public health strategy think tank. Their understanding of the body begins in Los Angeles in a family with deep roots in the Black Liberation Movement, and you can hear it in everything they share. For Crystal, no one comes home to their body alone. This conversation asks what bodily autonomy means when it's held in community rather than achieved in isolation. Crystal shares the story of their son born at 27 weeks while they are leading the very state programs designed to prevent premature birth, and what the distance between the system and their own hospital room taught them about care and community too. From there, this conversation gets a bit practical. We explore how you actually find community when you feel like you have none, why pausing is a privilege as well as a practice, and why pleasure deserves a far bigger definition than the one most of us have learned. We end by exploring weathering, the way oppression settles into the body over a lifetime. And we also end by exploring joy because Crystal insists it belongs at the center of liberation. I hope you enjoy listening to Crystal as much as I enjoyed interviewing Crystal. This is another episode of How to Be in This Body with Me, Ailey Jolie.

Ailey Jolie: 02:47

A gentle note before we begin. This episode touches on premature birth, racism, and violence against black and trans communities. Take what you need as you listen and ensure that you offer yourself the gentleness and care that's required. So my first question for you is one that I always start the podcast with. And I would love to hear from you what does being in your body mean to you?

Dr. Krystal Redman: 03:16

You know, it means so many different things. I think right now, in where we are in the world and the communities that I'm a part of, being in my body means feeling free. Uh, and not just so in a way where I can just move and and work through um the world, but like freedom in relation to liberation, like joy, happiness, being in my body means being able to go outside and not navigate or live with fear of attack or um being harmed. Being in my body means and feels like um like a warm hug, like being able to truly be authentically myself, centered in joy, love, liberation, and freedom.

Ailey Jolie: 04:11

I would love to hear from you where you came to that understanding of being in your body, and if there are any foundational experiences that led you to really include the community aspect and the situational kind of awareness aspect of how you answered that question, because it's one that I'm quite passionate about, but also know that not everyone uh that I've had as a guest has kind of honored context as a part of how they answered how what being in the body means to them.

Dr. Krystal Redman: 04:43

Yeah, so I so a few different ways I want I would like to talk about that. One it everyone deserves bodily autonomy, self-determination. And as someone who is an abolitionist, as someone who centers our work in black, trans, and queer liberation, um, and reproductive justice, that um understands the importance of we can't get anything. We did not just only desire, but need in order to survive and thrive in this world, if we're not afforded the opportunity or um don't have the power to fully operate in bodily autonomy. And um so, so with that lens, it automatically connects me to the power we individually hold and how we show up and use that. And it also connects me to this the understanding that we don't exist siloed, we're a part of communities, and you know, sometimes our communities are linked to our identities, sometimes our communities are our chosen family or the family we're born into or you know, attached to if you're in school or like the people around you geographically, right? Um, sometimes our communities are people with shared lived experience. So, whichever communities you're part of, we don't exist silent. So if I'm talking about bodily autonomy and the power of being able to navigate your own body in connection to liberation and freedom, there's no individualized liberation and freedom. So you can't attach the idea between the individual and the body from the collective and community. So I think that's where that's where I tend to lean on when connecting bodily autonomy and liberation is through community and power. Um, were there like life experiences or something I think about as that that helps me kind of like guide those principles and understanding, say like every chapter of my life. I lived a lot of life. I've laughed because I've lived so much life, which is beautiful because along those chapters, along that journey was lived experience. And what I tend to go back to is um my upbringing. So I share that I'm currently in in Atlanta, Georgia. That's where I've been living, but I'm from Los Angeles, California. And my family has deep roots in the Black Liberation Movement, um, Black Panther movement, and other structures that the state later coined as gang institutions. But these structures were created to um protect the black and brown family from um from violence, state violence and institutions. And uh we learned how to care for each other, we learned what everyone needed, we learned how to build mutual aid and resources and how we truly like can navigate not just surviving, but like thriving with joy and liberation and freedom at its center. So um, because of that upbringing, because I understood that um what communal collective power looks like, it allowed me to be free in my body because I knew that community was around me. We all had uh maybe not shared alignment in every value set, but we understood that our ultimate goal was for people to get the things that they need and feel safe, protected, and free. So I tend to go back to that lived experience when I think about um your question of bodily autonomy and and why I believe existence in my body is connected to community and power.

Ailey Jolie: 08:28

I would love if you feel comfortable sharing a little bit more about the importance of community when we are going into the process of coming home to our bodies, taking care of our bodies. What is that intersection? Again, because we live in such a hyper capitalist but also hyper-individualist society, that piece often gets missed. And it's one thing that I've really appreciated in listening to you on podcasts and kind of getting to know your work online was how beautifully weaved the element of community was in all of your work in such like almost like a subtle and sneaky way, like it's always there, right there. Um, and I really enjoyed following that thread. So I wanted to ask about the relationship between those two things. And again, you've shared a little bit about your history, but if there's any other experiences that really highlight the importance of community and the body, being in it, taking care of it, all of the things.

Dr. Krystal Redman: 09:24

Yes.

Dr. Krystal Redman: 09:25

So a few things come up for me. You mentioned capitalism, and I think the another through line between the individual and community is this element of care. And sometimes when we think about care and rest, um, we don't attach it to the idea of liberation and freedom. We attach it to capitalism and labor and almost this earned thing you need, like have to do in order to justify care or rest or in order to earn it. And so when I think about existing in my body and and what that looks and feels like, to me, it's not attached to capitalism. Like I understand capitalism is a thing. Uh, you know, we're part of an economy, you know, you know, paid labor, we have to pay our bills and survive. And that's the world we we exist in. And also, like, I tend to think, what does it look like for us to truly lean into care and rest individually and collectively attached from capitalism? Because very often we talk about, oh, care, self-care, we're like, oh, get your nails done or go to the spot, like valid, right? You do whatever you feel, right? By the way, tell me, do the things that you need to do that are not attached, that are not attached to the harm, hurt, or violence of other people, right? So, whatever outside of that you feel you need to do in order to take care of care of yourself, do it, right? And I also offer like, what does care truly look like? Self-love, self-care, self-efficacy truly look like attack detached from capitalism? Is it just being able to lay? Is it being able to, you know, get around other people and just sit and talk or not talk or have a shared space? Is it, you know, taking off your socks and shoes and walking on solid ground for a moment to just be grounded or like whatever it is, right? Um, some people, I'm not one of these people because I don't like to drive, but some people love taking long drives, and that to them is like, oh, care. You know, so so there's that, right? Attached to community is we don't also tend to think about care, communal care. Like what does communal care really look like? And um, you know, again, we don't exist outside of community, we exist within. We're these two things are mutually exclusive, they don't exist inside of a vacuum. So if we're talking about self-care, I can't imagine not being able to talk about communal care. You know, the individual is hyper and super important. And also the communal, the communal um space is also important. So, what does community care look like? Is it developing mutual aid structures to where if someone is short on their ring, we're like, hey, we have this structure already in place, we can support you in this way. Is it developing food banks or communal gardens or spaces where we can just laugh and join and gather? Is it developing child care networks where we don't, you know, if we don't have the financial resources or the trust built to put our kids within these childcare institutions, maybe it's a collective space for child care. Right? I can go on and on. So, like, you know, I tend to think about that. The other thing I think about is that um you asked if there was like a story or lived experience or some. Um, so I'm sure you may know that um my first child, Amir, was born early, was a Michael Prime. He was um a 27-weaker, one pound 12 ounces when he was born, spent 121 days in the neonatal intensive care unit known as the NICU, um, literally fighting for his life. And um at the time, I was leading maternal and child public health initiatives for the entire state of Georgia. So I was responsible for helping to design structures, well, systems and programs and initiatives uh that were supposed to or aimed to protect pregnant people and children, right? Um, but yet I was, you know, I found myself um being one of the outcomes that I was trying to prevent. And so um in that space, the the distance between the experience I was living and the systems that I helped create became very clear. And so while I sat in that distance, I questioned like how what could have been built structurally in communities outside of a system that could have helped prevent me and others from getting here. And so um when I think about community, I also think about conditions and structures that exist outside of formal institutions and how we can collectively care for each other and love on each other and build supportive structures that will directly affect our health outcomes and reduce the amount of crises our communities face.

Ailey Jolie: 14:33

I want to pause here for a moment. A baby born at 27 weeks, weighing one pound 12 ounces, is what the neonatal medicine calls a micropremie. In the United States, black women are nearly three times more likely to die from a pregnancy-related cause than white women, and black infants are more than twice as likely to die before their first birthday. Crystal has since turned this chapter of their life into a children's book for NICU families. You'll find this book linked in the show notes below.

Ailey Jolie: 15:20

If there are any pieces from your wisdom and life experience that you have learned that you wish more people were aware of in regards to how do we actually access community? How do we even create community? What are some of the foundational blocks? Where would I find some of this? And obviously, we have listeners all over the world. So you there's not a question of like naming specific organizations in any way, but I think it is a larger question and one that I've often grappled with myself, but also with clients of in this area that's often so siloed and shamed and isolated, how do we actually access community for ourselves? And how do we also create this so that others don't have a similar experience? And I know that you've dedicated a large part of your professional career on those two pieces.

Dr. Krystal Redman: 16:09

Yeah, you know, a part of being a part of spaces and around people is like you say, like, how do we know these things exist? How do we develop something? Um, so it's like, do we not have the information? Is it an access issue? Is it like a structural systemic barrier issue? Um, or is it a a cultural issue? And so, and I'll I'll lean into that. I think it's all of them, right? Um, I I do think that culturally there are some communities that are like, don't tell your like, you know, it's your story is changed, or maybe like I'll speak for my communities as a black woman. Um, you know, historically and current, and even currently, even though we're trying to break generational curses and all of that, um, it's like we are not even expected to compartmentalize. Like there's, you know, there's all of the trauma and things that are going on throughout our everydays. And we don't have time or the luxury to take a moment to really like even sit in a thing we just went through. It's like, okay, because there's another attack, another something. Uh, I have to go to work, I have to take care of my people, my kids, or my like there's there's this constant um in our lives that very often and historically we're we have not been given or we don't have the space or the bandwidth or the luxury of pausing. And because of that, very often our stories are left untold. Um, and when we do tell our stories, at times it's in like a smaller space. Like, and then in that smaller space, you hear others say, like, oh my goodness, I never knew that's your story. I have the same story. So, so there's that cultural element to it, right? I think that we are in a really interesting and unique time where we have social media and we have access to different groups and different communities that we may have never had access before without social media. So, like we can literally go on social media and search in the search bar, um, you know, doula support or reproductive justice support spaces or community groups in this area or whatnot, right? And it doesn't have to be specific to those particular categories. Very often, community is found in shared interests. Like in Atlanta right now, run clubs are really big. Like everyone wants to get together and run. And there's like hundreds and sometimes thousands of people that gather weekly and a few times throughout the week to just be in space and then run or do some type of physical activity. And you can use those spaces, yes, to have the core goal of moving your body and all of that, but also to gather and build community. And so while you're in those spaces, I challenge us, and you know, and and I think very often people eventually become comfortable enough to begin telling more about themselves and their stories and their lives. And as we build community, that trust is built too as well. And then people begin to share life together. And when you share life together, typically you share your experiences together. So I think for people listeners who are like, well, how do I find community? How do I tap in? And everything, there's community is all around us. And again, the good pieces are that we have access, like accessibility virtually and digitally has never been a thing before, like the last maybe 15, 20 years, and um, especially over COVID, like it was like that's how we connected. So leaning into that is super important and doing the work to try to dismantle and disrupt kind of these structural and cultural barriers that have existed that that have allowed us to um have this invisible wall uh that prohibited us from like connecting truly and sharing our stories.

Ailey Jolie: 20:13

I would love to circle back to something that you shared in your answer, which was the importance of pausing. And I would love if you could dive into why it's so important, why it's a privilege, how do we actually set ourselves up for success? How do we kind of uncondition these notions? Because I know for myself it took a really long time to even move the capitalist kind of um mindset that I had that I paused to later be more productive because that's like what makes like a good worker or a good student, whatever it was. So I would love to just spend a little bit of time there because I do want us to move into a conversation around pleasure. And I know that for us to access pleasure, we first do have to be able to pause.

Dr. Krystal Redman: 20:55

Yeah. So I so pausing is very layered because I think conceptually it it's a great idea to be like, I'm gonna attach detach myself from labor and capitalism and I'm gonna pause. But how privileged is that? There are not a lot of people that can just stop, right? Like the everything around them crumbles, you know? And um so that so there's that. So even in those spaces, the I think about intensity, frequency, and duration. So you don't have to have this long extended pause. Like, for instance, I just I came back from sabbatical. My organization, we engraved in our policies, protocols, and procedures self-care, radical rest, communal care, which included a sabbatical paid leave to pause. That's not common in a lot of organizations or companies, right? And and everyone gets access to that. If you work within our organization, you get access to that. You deserve rest, period. And then we have weekly radical rest weeks, collective pauses as a team throughout the year. At the end of the year, we shine down. Like all these different pauses, right? But also honoring that a lot of organizations, a lot of structures and systems and institutions don't have that. Some may have paid belief, some not, right? If you work very often in customer service or the food industry and service-based industries, very often you don't have those level of benefits, paid benefit packages, right? So there's that balance of if I can pause. So as I was saying, I think about pause in intensity, frequency, and duration. You don't have to have a long three, four month sabbatical paid leave in order to pause, right? Like thinking about where your power is. If your pause is like when you are home, you take a second and you sit down in your car. Listen, I've done this almost all my life in my paper in my in my working life. Like where I just pull into where my home is and I sit in my car and I might scroll or I might just sit there and listen to music or be on the phone, whatever it is. That is pausing to me. Like transitioning my mind, my body, my nervous system from one thing to another. And in that in between is like my sweet spot, that pause, right? Um, how often I can do that, how long I can do that for it. Might be five minutes, one day, two minutes, another, an hour, another day, right? Like encouraging folks to hold, like lean into where you can find your pauses throughout the day and not feel like, oh, I have to earn it, right? Um, while honoring that our our circumstances might not allow us to do an extended pause as often as we would like. Um, so there is that as far as like that that leaning and that pausing or what have you.

Ailey Jolie: 23:50

The second piece I wanted to ask you is around how pausing is necessary to later experience pleasure. This they have similar kind of building blocks.

Dr. Krystal Redman: 24:00

Yeah, not so one of the things someone uh I always forget who said this because we were on a collective poll with hundreds of people, but it was someone in the reproductive justice movement space, one of the leaders in within that space, and said, you know, we and this was during COVID, we're all remote talking on a call, and they said, we need to stop and sit our butt down and rest and pause and take care of ourselves and each other. Because if we don't, and our goal is to get to liberation and freedom, we won't be around to experience it when we get there. And which meant so much because I, you know, one, I hope the work that we're doing, collective work we're doing, gets us to liberation and freedom within my lifetime. And if it does, I want to see it. You know, I want to be well rested and not felt burnt out, my body's not broken down, my mind's not broken down, my nervous system is intact. Like I want to see it and experience it and be around to for all of it, right? Um, and so that's that's the connection there. I also say that this idea around pleasure and in our bodies, and it and I think sometimes when we talk about pleasure, people tend to solely lean on sexual pleasure when like pleasure is so expansive, like how we're able to show up with joy and freedom and all these different things. But there's so much like taboo and red tape around this concept of pleasure that we don't tend to get an opportunity to expand our definition around it because you know it's hush-hush. Um, and there's always there's already like a preconceived notion and definition attached to it. So it's like, do we even have space to like really truly dive into what pleasure means in connection to liberation and freedom? And so, in connection to like who we are in our bodies, self-care and pausing and our goal towards liberation and freedom. Once we get to liber, well, first off, pleasure is a part of liberation and freedom. But like when we get there, like are we just there just to be there, or we're there because we truly want to experience joy and um all the elements and components of pleasure that come with being liberated and free? So I don't think you can have a conversation about freedom and the inner bodies and joy and care without an element of pleasure.

Ailey Jolie: 26:32

What are some of the biggest misconceptions that you've come across in having conversations around pleasure and reproductive justice?

Dr. Krystal Redman: 26:43

Yeah, so one, like sexual pleasure for sure, love it, right? Like sexual liberation is is should always be a thing, right? Um, one of the biggest things that I come up against, a few different things. One is that when we do have conversations about pleasure, it's solely attached to sex. And when it's solely attached to sex, it's separate from like pleasure is always kind of like this this asterisk, you know, after we have a conversation around like prevention and the dangers of sex and you know, STDs and STIs and all of that, right? Um, and consent and all these meaningful things. But in these conversations, we don't talk like a part of the you know, prevention and consent and you know, treatment and all of these different things, pleasure is not in there. It's like later on, like after we've experienced this range of you know things connected to um connected to sex and what we deem as liberation, live being sexually liberated and free and attaching it to almost like just health and healthcare, we then maybe talk about pleasure. And so um I don't think those two, I don't think these things exist separately. Um, I think that when we talk about um, you know, sex, we need to talk about pleasure, right? Like, what are we doing? What do you like? What out of all of these different things. So that's one thing that I I tend to hear a lot in the conversations about pleasure, that it's detached from the conversations around sex solely. And what I'm saying is like, yes, typically when we talk about pleasure, it's only an element of sex, but it's an afterthought, right? Pleasure is not solely sex. And so there needs to be an expanded conversation, in addition to the fact that if we are talking about sex, it needs to be at like a priority within that sex conversation. So it can exist dually. The other thing that I often hear is that like people are erased from conversations around pleasure, and those particular people are disabled people, fat people, um, queer people, trans people, um, younger people, like um it and I'm not like I'm talking about, you know, younger, consensual people, right? Um so one of like some of the biggest challenges around pleasure is dismantling and disrupting this idea that pleasure only exists to like, you know, people without disabilities that are cishet and like middle-ish age and have all their shit together and all of this. And then so then we can talk about pleasure when um that is the hugest misconception because everyone should have access to pleasure, like everyone should have access to care and love and freedom and joy.

Ailey Jolie: 29:38

Thank you for bringing in some other experiences and just naming that pleasure should be something that all of us should access or be able to experience in our bodies. Now that you've kind of named some of the misconceptions, I would love to hear from you how we can reclaim pleasure. And I know that that will be different to everyone's unique positionality or systems of oppression that are working on their body. But if there are some kind of, if you have any um kind of more general applications of how we can begin to access pleasure, I know the listener would love to hear them.

Dr. Krystal Redman: 30:13

Yeah. So as I was saying, I would like for folks to think about pleasure as being expansive. And, you know, so it can include sexual pleasure, which we tend to attach it to mainly, um as a secret. Um, you know, like, you know, we'll talk about all the things in pleasure. Uh, but also pleasure should be attached to everything we're just talking about, like communal care and connection and um this idea of pleasure being like joy. This uh almost like an internal process of obtaining joy. This, you know, um, you know, there can be small moments of pleasure, just like there can be small moments of pause, right? So how we can reclaim pleasure is one, identifying what your definition of pleasure is in your life, right? Um, individually and communally. Uh if pleasure is expansive and pleasure looks like being able to um pick up a hobby, and I I don't want to say hobbies just like, oh, I golf or I, you know, since whatnot, but like picking up something new that like brings you pleasure because like you're expanding the way you think or um the things that you didn't know you were capable of doing. Um, you know, there can be pleasure in exploring the world and you know, I don't know, just I love coffee down. I don't know if y'all see that I've been drinking coffee this whole um podcast interview, but I love coffee, right? So my pleasure, listen, if you ever want to see me, please give me a nice cup of coffee. And that, like, I don't even have to sip it, just the holding of it against my chest, it makes me just feel pleased, like, ah, pleasure, right? So, like, whatever pleasure is to you individually, like leaning into that and not feeling just like with rest and joy that you have to earn it, right? If pleasure is expansive in those ways, then I would also suggest that like if we're talking about pleasure in a sexual sense too, as well, about being in our bodies and everything, pleasure looks different to everyone, right? So we're claiming that is a conversation. I think, you know, it if it's um you and your own body experiencing pleasure, or if it if it's you inviting other people to experience pleasure with you, it's all a conversation, like a self-conversation as well as a conversation within community. Um, like not even within community, but within within the space that you want to share with others. So um I think when it's a question around reclaiming, we have to first start with ourselves to determine what pleasure truly is to us. And then if a part of that conversation of pleasure is inviting others into your space, then that becomes a deeper intentional conversation you should have with others as well.

Ailey Jolie: 33:03

I wanted to ask you about pleasure and hear some ways that we can bring it into our bodies and into our lives before asking you, but I know another large piece of your work, which is really looking at how oppression lives in the body or how do we find liberation from oppressive systems. So I wanted to kind of, as we begin the end of our time together today, just hear from you around how oppression does show up in the body and why a liberatory framework is so important specifically in our present moment.

Ailey Jolie: 33:37

Yeah.

Dr. Krystal Redman: 33:38

So um the concept of weathering is one of the ways that oppression sticks in our bodies.

Ailey Jolie: 33:46

For anyone newer to this term, weathering comes from the public health researcher Dr. Arlene Guerinomas, who introduced the term in the early 1990s. Her research showed that the health of black women in America erodes measurably faster than that of white women, and that the difference could not be explained by income or individual behavior. The cause was the cumulative stress of living inside racism itself.

Dr. Krystal Redman: 34:10

Um, typically, weathering um is connected to people who have identities that have been historically and currently um marginalized, but um those folks who um had the furthest proximities to power. So some of those identities, black and and um uh immigrant folks, um, you know, uh fat, trans, queer, gender expansive, disabled, like all, you know, all um, all of the marginalized identities and in folks who hold multiple identities within that, within that subset. So when um I think about oppression, how it lives in the body, and think about this concept of weathering, because of those marginalized identities, that how we exist in the world typically um within those identities tell us because of systems and oppression and political environment and landscape, and you know, um how that connects to our social connections and context um has everything to do with how we are able to exist not only in our bodies, but in the world at large. And so, you know, as a public health doctor, a lot of the past public health research would say, like, oh, if you are black, then you are at an increased risk of X, Y, and Z. And it's like, no, like, and they talk specifically about race related to poor health outcomes. And it's like, no, it's not race, it's racism. And because of the systems wrapped around this idea of race and racism, is why we're experiencing poor, poor health outcomes like black maternal and infant morbidity and mortality rates, it's not because, oh, because of my blackness. No, it's because of the systems that exist rooted in anti-blackness. And so um, weathering understands that as a person living in some of the identities that I describe, that because of our identities, we have these lived experiences that continue to be inserted, like, you know, we're digesting it, digesting, and held in our bodies, and it affects our outcomes, our health outcomes. Um, it stress, right? It affects our heart health, it um, you know, affects our mental health, it affects everything, right? Um, every system within our bodies. And then ultimately it weathers us to the point of where what we get is a shorter lifespan. What we get is poor birth outcomes, what we get is heart disease, what we get is oh, you know, on diabetes and high blood, like all of these different things, right? So this concept of weathering. Now, for folks that don't have those identities, they may, you know, not fully understand that picture, which, you know, I don't think if you don't aren't navigating those identities, you're not gonna fully, fully understand. But I would also give this example, you know, when we open up our social media every day, as a black person, every day I see that someone was killed on, you know, on a live in the US. Black people are being lynched currently. I see, you know, people, black women and black birthers having to birth their babies on the side of the road because they're not trusted and listened to and they're turned away at our hospitals. I see people not being afforded a medical abortion and becoming septic and dying under medical care because of policies that are in place. I every single day I open up my phone and swipe, and there's another one. Swipe, there's another one, swipe, there's another one. And that we are told and taught and conditioned to compartmentalize and keep it going. Okay, now we have to work and you got this and we got kids, right? Where do you think that trauma goes? It stays with us, right? And every day we're we're just kind of like, okay, here's another one in an attack. And then you have political legislators saying, you know, Gail Black B about people who are trying to stick, like legislat other legislators, fellow legislators that are trying to create policies that truly, truly center people within the furthest proximity to power and are being attacked for it, right? You know, the fear of I have I have two children, the fear of when they go to school, you know, are they going to face anti-black racism? Are they gonna like all these different things, right? And so they sit with us. And then all of a sudden, oh, I have high blood pressure. Well, what are you doing? Here's a like, what do you mean what I'm doing? The the our society, our political environment and systems are not like structured in a way that center folks that truly need to be centered and centered in care, right? So um this idea of weathering and systemic oppression and all of that, just giving it a clearer picture of what that looks like for folks, um, when folks are unalive because they're trans and they're they're just existing in their bodies, and because of how people feel about that identity, they're unalive, right? And so how does how does if you cannot exist in your own body, liberated and free, and truly be yourself, and the self is not causing harm, hurt, or danger to anyone else, yeah. There's no there's no vision or towards a greater good of liberation and freedom when we are constantly being attacked every single day. So every day is this battle, right? And so when we are trying to envision the the greater, longer version of liberation and freedom, we're constantly having to pause and fight and work to dismantle structures and systems and all these different things in order to have this clearer path towards freedom. So I don't know. I um it's that was that's a very this a very clear question, and also it's very heavy and loaded in regards to the response.

Ailey Jolie: 40:17

Thank you so much for giving it a full response and not just kind of staying on the surface. I know there's so much depth and nuance and pieces, but I really wanted to touch on that piece because I know it's so central to your work. It's something that's I am so passionate about. And it's also a piece that I find is really missing in the conversation around somatics and embodiment is how do these things actually intersect? And I'm always trying to like, how do we pick apart this capitalist idea of well-being and wellness and somatics and embodiment because it is actually really rooted in liberatory psychology and in some of the movements that you've named today as well. So, my last question for you is there anything that we touched on today that you would like to circle back to, or any la, and if not, any last piece of insight or wisdom that you would like to leave the listener with?

Dr. Krystal Redman: 41:14

I think that when we talk about systemic oppression, and and I also say I'm an abolitionist, so I believe in dismantling and disrupting, burning it all down, and also the piece about having space to truly dream and envision and build something that truly centers those that um live deep within those margins, right? Like the beauty of that, and so often I think because of systemic oppression and all of the mess I just described that folks are navigating, that a focus is on that, which it should be. And also I don't want folks to feel like we are only talking about the lived experiences of folks within like my communities when it only comes to trauma and the and the you know the harmful experiences because of those systems, because our communities have beautiful experiences, and that's why I love to lean into communal care and lean into community because like our idea of liberation and freedom isn't like just a fight, right? Like our idea of liberation and freedom is being in community together. Like they're like, you know, I know when I am somewhere and I am the only person in my identity other than someone else across the room, and we look at each other and like like give a look. We know what that look is. Like that that community, that cultural stuff. It's like, okay, like I I love everything about my communities and and who I am and my identities and my body and the bodies, like like all of my community, right? And so I don't I don't want us to solely focus on um bodily autonomy, self-determination, pleasure, joy, liberation, freedom when it is only attached to hurt, harm, danger, trauma, and those experiences. I want folks to understand and know a bit more that this the experience of joy, pleasure, liberation, and freedom is constant every day in community, um, despite the other mess. Um, it's ongoing, it's always been around, it will always be around. Um, and I want folks to know that our idea is not a fight, our idea is our true authentic lives. Um, because we're we're we're gonna we're gonna have a kiki, we're gonna enjoy, and we're gonna be liberated despite it all.

Ailey Jolie: 43:41

So thank you so much for that answer, but also your time and all the work that you do in the world. The listener will have all of your information in the show notes so they'll be able to find you. But I wanted to ask is do you have anything upcoming that you would like us to make sure the listener knows about?

Dr. Krystal Redman: 44:00

So I have a TEDx talk coming up September 19th. And I actually speak about a lot of these things around structures and community and conditions, despite systemic um structures. And so that's September 19th. If folks are in Atlanta, Georgia, they're more than welcome to join in person. And for those that are not, then the I'm sure the TADX episode will be released on a larger platform and folks, you know, um tend to follow me or follow up with my information. I'm sure it'll be posted somewhere there. I'll also be hosting Afrotech, um Afrotech Health STAT conference in Houston, um, Texas, coming up, I believe November 2nd through 6th. So if folks are in the um US somewhere near Houston or would like to travel there, it is a beautiful platform that integrates so many of the things we spoke about. Um so yeah, so those few things coming up. And I'll also say that um if folks are interested in connecting some of these thoughts and strategies in a meaningful way, we have so many like leadership opportunities connected to um the Sage Institute, which is um one of the spaces that I founded and uh created and run, as well as Spark Reproductive Justice Now, which is in Atlanta, Georgia, and is a reproductive justice organization space that folks are truly, truly interested in finding community here in Atlanta. So I think that's it.

Ailey Jolie: 45:32

Thank you so much. I'm excited for your TED talk. Thank you for spending this time with Dr. Crystal Redman and me. Everything Crystal mentioned lives in the show notes. What stays with me from this conversation is Crystal's refusal to let embodiment be a private project. Their dedication is the reason why I really wanted to have them on this podcast. I've spent my career helping women coming home to their bodies, and the longer I do this work, the more certain I become that no nervous system regulates alone. We settle in relationships with other people and we heal there too. Crystal names the politics of that truth in a way the wellness world so often leaves out. Crystal has also dedicated their career to supporting individuals in coming home to their body through the power of community. If this conversation starts something in you, my Substack is where I share about topics like the ones touched on in this episode. If you become a free subscriber, you have access to the most recent articles. If you become a paid subscriber, you have access to the entire archive of essays, exclusive guest recordings, meditation audios, and psychoeducation lectures from me too. If Substack isn't for you, but you still would like me to be a part of your process of coming home to your body, you can still join my online course, Embody. It's a 14-week program that includes guest teachers, meditation audios, journal practices, psychoeducations, community calls, and so much more. The September offering of Embody will be the last 14-week offering of this course. If reading my writing on Substack and having access to exclusive content or in body isn't what you're looking for and you want to spend some time in person, you can join me this November in Costa Rica. I'll be hosting a seven-day retreat at Blue Spirit, which is a retreat center located in Nosahara. Over those seven days, we'll be going through a lot of the material that is in my inbody course, but we'll be doing it in person. You can find out both about the online course and my retreat at www.inbodymethod.com. Again, I want to say thank you for listening and for being here and for being in the tender, ongoing process of coming home to your body and allowing this podcast our guest and me, Aile Jolie. If you found value in this episode, it would mean so much to me for you to share the podcast with friends, a loved one, or on your social platform. If you have the time, please rate and review the podcast so that this podcast reaches a larger audience and can inspire more and more humans to connect to their bodies too. Thank you for being here and nurturing the relationship you have with your very own body.